TRAVELLER Digest 590

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: USL Ships and Planetary Landings. Why Not?!
by That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
  2) Infantry is NOT useless...
by Christopher_Griffen_at_DMC-SJ3@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
  3) Classic Traveller and Unstreamlined Ships
by chriscox@ix.netcom.com (Lawrence Christopher Cox )
  4) Re: Traveller: Voyages [Traveller 4] :-)
by fredm@datasync.com (Paul Walker)
  5) Re: Vargr questions!
by fredm@datasync.com (Paul Walker)
  6) Re: VIRUS _IS_ RARE!!!!!!
by fredm@datasync.com (Paul Walker)
  7) Depressing
by George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
  8) Re: Vargr questions!
by Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
  9) Re: VIRUS _IS_ RARE!!!!!!
by "David E. Brooks Jr" <dbj@MPGN.COM>
 10) Gauss Gun design
by "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>
 11) What's wrong with MT?
by ereddoch@amaranth.com (Eris Reddoch)
 12) RE: computers
by Marcus Hast <marcus.hast@mailbox.swipnet.se>
 13) Re: TRAVELLER digest 588
by Benjy Barton <Benjy@iap.net.au>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:14:18 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: USL Ships and Planetary Landings. Why Not?!
Message-ID: <199602091814.NAA16539@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Fri, 09 Feb 1996 12: 40:44 EST
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 13:14:17 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

: I could also live without a bunch of the alternate stuff.  Much of it is
: useful for the reasons Jerry mentioned, though.  And the higher TL stuff
: gives some neat ideas regarding what research is being done in the
: Imperium, etc..  The key is that the higher TL stuff needs to fit with
: the plans for future developements in the universe (something the I
: doubt was thought of---they designed the rules for FFS, then applied the
: higher TLs to the RSB.  They needed to know what the Regency would look
: like, etc., then do the higher tech.)

Looking through FFS, I don't think that they designed those TL's
first and then applied them to current game material.  I was digging
through FFS when it first came out and comparing it to the technology
guidelines from MT's Referee's Companion.  If you compare the two, you
see that FFS basically quantifies what information was presented in
the Ref's Companion.

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:57:16 -0800
From: Christopher_Griffen_at_DMC-SJ3@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Infantry is NOT useless...
Message-ID: <11b8c560@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

Responding to Bri@teleport...

>> I've noticed something... In TNE, infantry is useless.
 It can only hurt other infantry. So this thought line continues, and you
come to the conclusion of why not just make all tank and drone units?
 Against the pathetic vehicles in the RCVG, infantry can do something
with it's missiles(but the tanks can just fly over them:P), but against a
properly armourd TL-15 vehicle(av410 all around), infantry cannot hurt them.<<

It's already that way.  Infantry in Traveller is useful for the same thing
infantry has been useful for since time immemorial:  holding land.  No cordone
of starships or tank squadron or whatever can do what a large fighting force can
do:  hold land.  It takes the tanks, planes, starships, etc. _to_ take the land,
but the infantry must then hold it.

--Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:30:20 -0800
From: chriscox@ix.netcom.com (Lawrence Christopher Cox )
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Classic Traveller and Unstreamlined Ships
Message-ID: <199602091930.LAA03292@ix4.ix.netcom.com>

A quick note regarding canon and Unstreamlined Ships. The
800 ton unsteamlined mercenary crusier, Broadsword, lands on
Garda-Vilis, a size 9 atmosphere 7 world, in Adventure 7
Broadsword.  Keep in mind, this was before installing contra-
grav was even an option.

Chris Cox
New York City
(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/trav.htm)


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:44:11 -0600
From: fredm@datasync.com (Paul Walker)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Traveller: Voyages [Traveller 4] :-)
Message-ID: <199602091944.NAA15162@osh1.datasync.com>

>>Hmm. Actually I'd prefer to see this in two books, the two totalling 3-500
>>pages. The first book containing all the rules, and the second containing
>>the background (separated into the three time periods, natch). The books
>>available together or separately.
>
>I want Player and Equipment stuff in one book, and ref oriented stuff in a
>seperate book.  It was reall tough trying to get characters created and work
>on flushing out a world when there is but one book.  GM's will invariably be
>putting final touches on their adventure just before it starts, and if the
>players are busy passing the book around, it becomes difficult.
>

Shortly after I posted my original wish list (I think it was as I drove home
that evening) I remembered that a while back there was a thread about
multiple books.  I think it would help if there were only one book to have
it in a three ring binder, but I can see your point about several books.

>
>I would like a players book that has:
>
>Then in a Refs Guide
>

I liked your ideas for each of these books.  Whether we get one main book,
or multiple books, I hope we have all of the items you mentioned included.

>
>Then have each era represented in a seperate Era Book.
>

I would rather see this in one book at least initially.  This helps
alleviate the problem of which era to start publishing with.  The three time
periods already published have lots of materials for support already.  The
most important point is to bring the old profiles into the new system.

Paul {tiger}

"54-40 or fight!" - TBWSK


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:44:33 -0600
From: fredm@datasync.com (Paul Walker)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Vargr questions!
Message-ID: <199602091944.NAA15179@osh1.datasync.com>

>...To whoever asked about the Vargr...

That would be me.  My original question was

>1.  I have a question for the more experienced of Travellers.  I'm about to
>begin a campaign that contains a Vargr NPC.  The grandparents of this
Vargr, >along with a couple other Vargr families, were stranded during the
wars that >followed the rebellion(CT/MT traditionalist forgive).  This Vargr
has been >raised in a human society.  My question is this, would it be
possible for this >Vargr to be more "Domesticated" than "Wild"?  I mean most
Vargr display a >tendency to stay in Packs with a constant CHR "battle" over
who the leader will >be, much like the wild canines they descend from.
However, a Vargr that was >raised in a post-imperial human culture, IMO,
would exhibit more of the >tendencies of a domesticated canine(ie, loyalty).
The Vargr in this campaign >(as I have it planned thus far) is a loyal
companion to the leader of the PC >group.  It would detract from the
campaign to constantly worry about CHR issues. >Is this possible, or is the
CHR "battle" of the Vargr a instinctive response?

I'm still struggling with this one.  Any help would be appreciated.

Paul {tiger}

"54-40 or fight!!" - TBWSK


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:44:20 -0600
From: fredm@datasync.com (Paul Walker)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: VIRUS _IS_ RARE!!!!!!
Message-ID: <199602091944.NAA15172@osh1.datasync.com>

I hate to bring this point up again, but I alas we must all bare our crosses. :)

Virus is not all that widespread.  I have a rough spreadsheet worked up (if
anyone wants a copy, I can clean it up) and the probability of encountering
a virus ship in the Wilds is about 1.7%.  Consider six encounter rolls per
system:

1. Travel from 100 Diameters to 10 Diameters,
2. Travel from 10 Diameters to Orbit,
3. Travel from Orbit to Landing(Docking or Skimming),
4. Travel from Landing(Docking or Skimming to Orbit),
5. Travel from Orbit to 10 Diameters, and
6. Travel from 10 Diameters to 100 Diameters

And you increase your percentage to 10%.  This works out to be 3 systems in
a subsector, 45 systems in a sector, and 1800 systems in all of charted
space(TNE, pg. 13, 40 sectors Wilds, 6 sectors Spinward States, 3 sectors
RC/Rift/Hiver).  This is not all that much people.

Let's not worry about how widespread Virus is.  The facts are it isn't.  In
addition, the advent of the Fer De Lance ("Snake") and Peacemaker Virus
strains will further weaken virus stands.

In conjunction with this I am working on a short term timelinefor the
immediate future(25-35 years) of the RC and Regency.  I'm at a loss as to
the Empress Wave though (it seems my original theory wasn't cannonical.
:)).  If anyone has any suggestions I'd love to hear them.  I'll post my
ideas in a few days(after I have some weekend time to work on them.)  Thanks!

Paul {tiger}

"54-40 or fight!!" - TBWSK





------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 11:51:16 -0800
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Subject: Depressing
Message-ID: <199602091951.AA11994@mail.crl.com>


I just recieved a note from GDWs comptroller, stating that they
don't have enough cash to pay off all their creditors and asking
if I will take game items from stock instead, along with a list.
They owe me slightly over $100 for a couple of Challenge articles.

Not a problem, but depressing.  Sorta brings home that they
really will be gone soon.  8-(

-george william herbert
gherbert@crl.com


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 15:00:56 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Vargr questions!
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960209200056.00c97f78@central.keywest.mpgn.com>

At 02:41 PM 2/9/96 -0500, Paul asked something like:
    "Is it possible to have a Vargr who is not pack oriented?"

I think so.  The Alien Books were written more to the culture of each alien
race.  Vargr society behaves like the book details, but an individual Vargr
does not have to.

If you look at various Spinward Marches materials, they have many references
to the one lone Vargr (The Traveller Adventure for example).  Pack oriented
CHR fighting had little to do with any thing.  Your Vargr is in a Human
Society and will behave with Human tendancies.

Run him like a human, just has cool looking fur.  Just dont make him "Go Fetch".

Rob
--
Rob Miracle (rwm@TanSoft.com)| GCS d-->--- !H s:++ !g !p au+ a34 w+ !v C++>++++
Tantalus Inc.  Key West, FL  | UU++++$ P--- L+ 3 E--- N+++ K-  W+ M-- V-- -po+
"You have a problem?  I have | Y-- t++ 5>++ jx R+++ G'''' tv+++ b D B- e++ u**
a plan!" -- Anton Devious    | h---- f r+++ n---- y++++


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:17:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "David E. Brooks Jr" <dbj@MPGN.COM>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: VIRUS _IS_ RARE!!!!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.960209150724.27984A-100000@Central.KeyWest.MPGN.COM>

On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, Paul Walker wrote:

> In conjunction with this I am working on a short term timelinefor the
> immediate future(25-35 years) of the RC and Regency.  I'm at a loss as to
> the Empress Wave though (it seems my original theory wasn't cannonical.
> :)).  If anyone has any suggestions I'd love to hear them.  I'll post my
> ideas in a few days(after I have some weekend time to work on them.)  Thanks!

I was working along the same lines and learned quite a bit by studying
the quotations scattered throughout the TNE books.

For instance, there's a quotation from a Regency officer making
comments about the Reformation Coalition dated 1206 (!).  It seems
they are going to meet very, very soon indeed.

There's also strong indications that the Star Vikings and their
tactics aren't used very long by the Reformation Coalition.  I can't
remember exact dates or references, but if I remember correctly, there
is a reference dated on or about NE44 (1244) discussing the Star
Vikings in the past tense.

Of course, don't forget the very end of Vampire Fleets.  There is a
one-page section that gives all kinds of tidbits of information.

-- Dave

--
David E. Brooks Jr / dbj@MPGN.COM | GCS/O d? H+(-) s:+ g+ a w++(--) v
Tantalus Incorporated             | C++ UU++++$ UO P+>+++ L+ E N+ W+>+++
Key West, FL                      | M- V- po Y+ t+(++) !5 !j R+(++)>+++ G'
+1 305 293 8100 x15               | tv- b+>++ D B- e u+ h--- f+ r+++ n y?


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:09:22 MST7
From: "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Gauss Gun design
Message-ID: <333F099514D@tonic.pharm.Arizona.EDU>

Well...the gored oxen seem to have mostly crawled away to die, so we
can get back to posting real stuff...

This is my first weapon design with FFS, so bear with me.

Background:

I wanted to figure out something like the gun the alien used in
the first Predator movie. From appearances it's some sort of energy
weapon, but nothing in FFS fits...there's no way, for instance that a
fusion or plasma gun can be built at that size, so I designed it as a
gauss gun...which can be done with minimal bending of FFS.

FFS describes armor similar to the armor in Predator as appearing at
TL-15; my guess is that by TL-16 it will be improved to the point
described in the film.

The other break in FFS is the utter lack of a 'smart-gun' type
tracking system as in the movie.  An aiming system appears at TL-10
(described in the cybernetics section); again by TL 16, I'll assume
that the system works as in the movie.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tukulliya'a Industries 'Predator' smartlinked Gauss gun

Tukulliya'a is a small Aslan weapons design firm that produces
limited production, and custom weapons systems for, mostly, private
clients.

The predator was designed for hunting in the arboreal forests of
Tyuar, an aslan-owned garden world, maintained as a safari reserve by
the A'Aiehkel clan.  Tyuar is earth-like world with a southern continent that 
is a
gigantic forest.  These forests make the Amazon Rainforest look like
a sparse alpine meadow...there are four very distinct ecosystems in
the forest.  Of interset to the Aslan is the mid arboreal system.
This is the part of the forest, high enough in the forest to get
continual sunlight, but below the tree tops, and is as close to a
three-d environment one can get to on dry land.  Most  the large anmals
that live in this zone are brachiating quadrupeds, along with
some hexapods.

One of the latter is a fast, vicious predator, called the IyaTakh.
The IyaTackh is probably the top predator of the Tyuar forests. The
IyaTackh is a solitary predator, whose closest mammalian analog on Earth would
be the leopard.

Even for the superior Aslan reflexes the IyaTackh is a difficult
prey, so the A'Aiehkel commisioned the 'Predator' Gauss gun system.
The weapon is mounted on a harness and sits on the shoulder of the
Aslan, with the controlling batteries, and computer system in a fanny
pack type arrangement. The aiming is done via a head mounted HUD that
tracks the movement of the eyes, and shows the aim point of the
weapon.  The harnes includes an inertial compensation frame which
absorbs most of the recoil.

Other than this is it a fairly standard, short-barreled 10 mm Gauss
carbine.

The A'Aiehkel will rent this weapon as part of the safari package;
part of the standard Tukulliya'a contract for custom designs is that
the firm has licence to produce the weapon for other customers; they
have made it in other calibers.

Tukulliya'a Industries 'Predator' smartlinked Gauss gun
(obviously stolen from the movie_this is the first one I've done with
FFS) TL 16(the armor the Predator used first appears at TL 15)
 SA  ROF
Ammo10.00mm gauss
Weight7.85g
Cost0.94cr
Muzzle Velocity5000m/s
Muzzle energy9817joules

Predator Shoulder mount guided gauss rifle
TL167500cr (Higher than FFS because it's a custom unit)
Ammo10.00x50mm Gauss rifle round
Weapon Weight4.10Loaded (50 rounds)
 3.70Empty
Magazine weight1.47Loaded
1.08Empty
Magazine cost50.12cr (loaded)
DamageSlug7HE,HEAP9
PENSlug1-3-5HENilHEAP2-2-2
RangeSlug130HE,HEAP100
Recoil1

Weapon length49cm
Weapon bulk3



Bruce Johnson
Information Technology/College of Pharmacy
The University of Arizona
johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu


As if this place HAD any opinions...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 00:19:43 CST
From: ereddoch@amaranth.com (Eris Reddoch)
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Subject: What's wrong with MT?
Message-ID: <199602092328.RAA19990@mailhub.amaranth.com>


>>While CT may be somewhat outdated, MT, with its armor penetration and task
>>resolution systems, is not.  MT, IMO, was like a good rock band with a
>>bad manager.  It died because of bad PR and poor production values, not
>>because it is a "1970's" system.

> I would actually agree with this.  I've been playing around
> with the MT system lately, and with the exception of the
> vehicle design system ( which I'm still struggling to
> understand) it is pretty OK.

Moderately, OK.  I didn't fall in love with MT when it came out,
but I used it.  I didn't fall in love with TNE (mechanics) when
it came out, but I've used it.  Personally, I don't think the
mechanics matter as much as the feel of the game.  CT *feels*
open and fast.  MT *feels* complex and restricted.  TNE *feels*
even more complex and restricted.

> There's no question that what hurt MT was the very poor editing
> which resulted in all that errata.

Yes, there was that.  I've *never* been able to completely
convert to MT.  I thought it was me, turns out half the book was
screwed up. ;->

> I also think, frankly, that the $30 price tag back in 1987
> didn't help either.

Do you remember the sticker shock?  I do, vividly!  I left and
returned 3 times before I could bring myself to plunk down $30
bucks.  Of course, the $50 for TNE was just as bad.

> My comments were directed at those who pine for CLASSIC
> Traveller.  However, there are still a few holdouts from CT
> even in MegaTraveller that I'd like to see gone in the new
> edition:  NO survival rolls of ANY kind, and characters having
> more skills.  Other than that, I could be happy with an
> MT-style system; but call it something else!

I agree about survival rolls, dump them.  I don't use 'em anyway.
More skills, just run 2 year tours instead of 4 year ones...with
the same number of skills per tour.  Give us multiple character
construction paths:  build in place from points; grow over a
number of years; quick career templates with embellishment..that
kind of thing.

One change nobody but me seems to want involves the basic
Attributes.  I want to break Dexterity into two parts:  Agility -
balance, body awareness and movement; and Dexterity - fine
manipulation of objects with the hands.  I've known highly
dexterous people..watch makers, jewelers..who had two left feet,
were old and fat.  I've also known people with excellent
balance..dancers, running backs..who were all thumbs.

That's my take on it anyway.



------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 01:05:14 +0100
From: Marcus Hast <marcus.hast@mailbox.swipnet.se>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: computers
Message-ID: <199602100005.BAA28001@mailbox.swip.net>

<Much Snipped>
>Some more crazy computer ideas, develop some Traveller software for the Apple
>Newton Message Pad PDA thingy, it's very portable and easy to take to
>gaming group meetings. The Newton has builtin infra red comms and a Local Talk
>network port. You could run a networked game of "Computer Traveller"
>face to face if your players have Newtons and a bit of Local Talk cabling :)
>more fun than all "3-10 players" crowding around the one PC if you are using
>combat resolving software.
>
>Greg O'Sullivan
>(gjo@brt.deakin.edu.au)

Ahhh. But why do you need such a "complex" computer? I have begun developing
a program for my calculator. (A Texas Instrument TI-82.) And although I'm
not sure weather I'll ever finish the program or not, I've found that it can
do most of the things you need it to. OK, I wouldn't want use it to keep
track of the players in space and such, but the calculator is quite capable
of doing the NPC rolls, keeping track of health and such. Not to much
though, and this is the real drawback, as it's memory is quite limited. It's
hard to program it when you are dealing with such a limited number of
variables. Enough wining from me ;-) A program like this can be made. But it
would require some time.

Anyone else tried this BTW? Anyone interested in a finished program?
Marcus Hast, Sweden



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 20:44:43 +0800
From: Benjy Barton <Benjy@iap.net.au>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 588
Message-ID: <311B41BB.7768@iap.net.au>

>You try lowering the voyager probe say at a very small rate of descent and
>tell me that it would be unaffected by atsmopheric conditions as it takes
>ages for it's USL body to hit the earth.  CG's would slow descent in order
>to prevent friction.  However as it isn't streamlined, external conditions
>would buffer the probe.

How does CG slow descent, In BL p15 states"CG lifters do not provide thrust and 
so cannot
physically lift a ship. Instead, they neutralize most of the gravitational 
attraction of a world
(approx. 99% of Gravitational froce. This combined with atmoshere pressure, 
will provide buoyancy
in VERY DENSE ATMOSPHERES eg like a Gas Giant. Think of a submarine, it 
displaces its own
weight of fluid(liquid or gas), therefore it will sink to when the amount of 
fluid displaced is
equal to the weight of the sub.  By fill the tanks with compressed air it 
reduce its displacement
volume and rises. The US Ohio class SSBN Displacement: 16,764tons and 18,750 
tons dived and took
3years to make.

What i am trying to say here is if a USL ship enters to atmosphere it would 
have to sink a long
way before it reaches its buoyancy level (the bigger the ship more it displaces 
and this my be
modified by surface area of ship or Density of fluid),if a object is 1 ton or a 
hundred tons they
will still Sink or fall at the same rate and increasing to maximin speed(this 
my be modified by
surface area of ship or Density of fluid),  the USL craft would have to have 
its thruster pointed
towards the gravity well to arrest its desent (or a parachute which the voyager 
deployed after
releasing its heat protection which protected it through the thin upper 
atmosphere.

As for Grav craft using CG, it states on p23 step2 Suspension in FFS that" CG 
allows light lift
vehicles to be buoyant on worlds with sufficiently dense atmosphere.  Howeve, 
all congtra-grav
vechicles are assumed to have vectored thrust agencies to hold them up the 
remaining faction of
their weight, allowing them to hover.

This my interperetation of the rules!
It was 37 degrees celsius today :-)
--
"What is best in life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the
lamentations of their women! ." - Conan The Barbarian .

 "...and the skies shall be consumed in atomic fires and flesh burnt from
bone. His coming would be marked by war and fear and his dynasty would
have been known for its savage cruelty...
    ...save for one lone warrior."


------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 590
***************************
